Keeping things in perspective with Mike Donovan
This is an interview with my climbing buddy and dear friend, Mike Donavan aka the legendary “Mike D”.
I first met Mike early in my outdoor climbing career bouldering at Mortar Rock in Berkeley. As always, Mike was a prominent presence at the crag with his contagious psych and constant griping about the miserable quality of the rock.
I remember him distinctly lurping on the crux throw of Impossible Wall, not coming very close to latching it, but always coming down eyes glowing with excitement - “I think I got it!” This quality always stood out to me about Mike - his constant optimism and encouragement.
I later discovered Mike’s legendary Youtube archives (MikeDMedia, d0novn) and his Instagram peppered with FA’s and amazing montages of bouldering all across California. Since then, I’ve had the pleasure of climbing with Mike several times indoors and outdoors and would absolutely call him one of the most fun people to climb with and amazing mover. It always amazed me how (excuse the disparaging remarks, Mike!) how hard he was able to climb despite being out of shape and not analyzing climbing as objectively as I did. I want to say that, even though his methods may receive some flack, I think Mike is an amazing human being and climber who has a lot of wisdom to impart.
Please note, I wanted this interview to remain genuine and real, so the only edits I made are italicizing/bolding key sections and adding my personal thoughts in brackets. Enjoy and have a great rest of your holidays!
You say you have weak fingers or are too heavy to climb hard. Yet, I’ve seen you put down hard climbs when not in the best shape. How do you bypass feeling ‘light’? How do you get by with just physical strength and technique?
I have weak fingers? What? Jk.. haha.
I don’t believe climbing ‘hard’ is inherently about strength but moreso much more factors involved. A good example is you can climb the hardest slab climb in your life maybe after a long illness off the couch but maybe when you were climbing your best in overhanging territory you had no luck on it.
Another thing to take note of is I actually gained weight from climbing in planet granite and eating way too much which lead to building bigger muscles on the larger muscle groups. I found it not so helpful for outdoor climbing but it could be really good if you say were only climbing on overhanging pinches? So it all is relative.
So knowing these elements and this regard as an older climber now I don’t take it personally or hard (anymore) when i perform horribly to my standards, and in fact use it as a form of training or try to find the fun and workout inside it.
I have seen plenty people 80 lbs lighter than me complaining about feeling heavy, everything is perspective. Having a good perspective and attitude makes climbing things easier in my opinion.
Going through your Instagram, it doesn’t seem like you climb indoors or train too much. Would you say you do train, but aren’t very public about it? Or would you say your outdoor mileage is sufficient training to improve?
I actually climb inside a ton and always have, but there are moments I might be away from a gym for 6 months. This isnt to improve my outdoor climbing its to keep my overall fitness up to shape. I used to train a lot when I first started, I do find it very helpful.
I think if you are overclimbing, training is terrible for you, and vice versa. Balance is key and in a way projecting is training… for your project specifically! I think it depends on what your goals are, if you want to climb hard outdoor boulders I think it’s important to climb outside. Lots of things to learn from both disciplines, as well as trad, speed, and sport climbing.
I believe you can climb v14 + never climbing inside much, and i also believe the later you can climb those same grades without climbing outside ever. Just really depends because grades and body types are so variable.
Some of my hardest graded climbs are my easiest climbs because I sought after what fitted me. [I thought this was interesting as an individual who goes by the mantra - ‘train your weaknesses’]
I do think hangboard helps a lot but i never do it.
I know (because you’ve been asking me to my incessant refusal) that you’ve been psyched on sport climbing recently. Why is this? What impact do you think sport climbing has and would have on your bouldering? Should boulderers sport climb? If so, how often and how should they go about it?
I mean that truly depends on your goals, I do believe it helps you become a better rock climber, does that mean you will boulder harder.. Not necessarily.
Plenty of boulderers who do not climb on granite cliffs might get totally housed in the valley on a 5.7 chimney. Different disciplines that all help and compliment each other. Its up to the individual in my opinion, and if they seek endurance and learning to climb trying to save energy vs bouldering…
I mean I definitely think if you want to be a good rock climber than climbing hard routes is a necessity.
You’ve put up so many FA’s of high quality problems. What’s your process like? What do you seek when doing an FA - fun movement? Physical difficulty? Technical footwork?
No more so just a rock that looks cool and that looks like it would climb well. Moreso off looks to be honest im looking for something that looks like white lines or airwolf, so i do bypass alot of areas i have found on google earth just simply because im not looking to put up a bunch of v0s or anything like that unless they are art pieces imo. And the best looking lines usually range from moderate to very difficult (most of the time not always) Its always nice to find something around your level of max difficulty as well for a nice challenge. I also try to search for entire areas because its cool having more out there for us to do!
Speaking of FAing, it seems like a lot of your work resides in Tahoe. I almost consider you to be a Tahoe local. Just how untapped is the area compared to the other places you’ve climbed in (Joshua Tree, Colorado, Yosemite, etc)?
I dont really think of things that way, the way I see is its all pretty untapped especially if you have an imagination. But yes wherever is further from the road and less people have traveled is likely to house more opportunities that haven’t been found yet. I kinda see the whole tahoe area as the sierras more than just a concentrated area such as bishop.
But yeah i do think the potential is limitless in the areas around tahoe and so much further south. I mean I literally found a roadside boulder in yesterday in Truckee and its not even in the book. I haven’t done all that much FA ing and to be honest but finding a new area is rad!
At the same time, you’ve climbed everything - 4 star lines in Yosemite to absolute choss in Rocklin. How and why are you so psyched on just doing everything - regardless of grade, style, or quality? Do you think it makes you a better and well-rounded climber?
Yes. And im not as psyched as others for sure, I see people building landings and scrubbing climbs i wouldn’t want to do all that badly, and Vacaville is pretty absurd with some of those ridiculous climbs i don’t do those either. [Haha some serious shade thrown at the Nut Tree Boulders]
I used to have the mentality check every climb off in the book, im a bit older now so im just fine with having fun and doing one or two good climbs. [I’ve found this to be true of other older climbers too. Could this potentially be what’s holding them back and causing them to plateau?]
You’ve climbed with Paul Robinson, Chris Sharma, Jimmy Webb, and other absolute legends. Just how inhuman are these guys? What have you seen that these people do indoors or outdoors that separates them from the rest?
They are just normal people like you and me but have discipline and drive as well as focus. They all work very hard and I don’t think it comes just on its own. Someone the other day asked me “how badly do you want it” I think thats the question that separates them from the rest. Relentless hard work, studying on diet, training, etc. Doing everything you can to put yourself in the way of success. And with all that I think it really helps to be very psyched because its what will create that drive.
You’ve climbed V11+ in the past. No offense, but it seems like you’re not at your physical peak and not climbing as hard as you have in the past. How do you deal with staying psyched when you know you’ve lost a little ground? Do you want to get back to your previous levels? If so, how do you plan on getting back there?
For me I have been heavy and light throughout my climbing life constantly fluctuating, so yeah it can be frustrating, depressing at times and just hard to work with but it truly is my own fault because I don’t focus on my diet all that much.
I stay psyched by just doing it, it kind of fuels itself but its when I dont climb for a long time getting back in the gym can be a bit rough, but i always enjoy going outside and climbing any grade at any weight. I think that really is the reason why i do it and once that weight is lifted off my ego and i realize im just climbing because i actually enjoy it versus trying to accomplish a feat. [I love this mentality!]
If i do however want to get good fast, i just focus on my diet, health, and rest. Making sure that im on a routine that I have learned that can make me get better very quickly. I dont feel like i need to get back to a previous level because i feel like im a better climber now than i ever have been even though im not pulling down the hardest grades, doesn’t mean i havent learned 1000 things that i never knew when i was 163 [lbs] and my style was campusing.
[I found this to be a refreshing idea exemplifying a growth mentality. Regardless of strength standards, weight fluctuation, etc, we’re always improving as climbers. Take every opportunity as a learning experience and trust the process.]
Perception is everything! Mentality, the way you look at things. Psyche comes and goes for me nowadays, and balance is key. But the best days of climbing I have arent because i climbed the hardest things, its because i had amazing experiences and i think for me thats more important than climbing hard nowadays.
Thanks for interview Mike! Stay psyched and focus on having FUN!